Tuesday 10 January 2012

A difference of opinion...paternalism in spanking

Hey there spanking fans and fellow obsessives; I'm going to have to ask you to bare with me a bit on this one, as I'm still working out exactly what I want to say. Still, let's give it a go - there's always the delete key!

If you've been around the scene for any length of time I'm sure that you have heard of Dan Rivera; he's the American gent who was originally responsible for compiling the wonderful Cinema Swats series of videos, which collected together mainstream spanking scenes for the first time.

A few years ago these were invaluable; I got my sets directly from Dan back in the early 90's, I think it was.

Dan is also a talented artist and has created a number of cartoons and comic strips featuring spanking.

Dan is definitely a man of forceful opinions.

Dan is not a fan of F/F spanking; on a message board awhile back he stated, and here I must paraphrase a little as I've lost the actual quote, that he only likes men spanking women because those are the roles that nature intended for us, our natural roles.

Now, leaving aside the argument that this sounds a little like a religious justification for homophobia (and I'm not suggesting Dan is homophobic - I have no way of knowing) it does worry me in the way it sets out stereotypical roles.

On one level the contention is vaguely logical; traditionally men are physically stronger than women, and therefore they can potentially compel a woman into a submissive position.

Also historically men have legally been able to dominate women, and society has instructed women that they are merely chattels of their husbands and fathers.

Thankfully society has now (largely) outgrown these ridiculous constructs, and men and women are considered, by and large, to be equal, at least in the eyes of the law. Yes, you can list exceptions to this, but in general it holds true.

In view of this, is it a bit strange the number of spanking videos that are produced where men spank women because, effectively, "they know best"?

I know that, in reality, videos are effectively role play, and you can imagine anything if it works for you. Still, the incidents are not framed as role plays; they are presented as valid interactions between two members of different sexes.

I'm happy to exclude videos which establish a specifically parental authority for the provision of discipline (although I'm not really a fan of this aspect of M/F spanking) but boyfriends, employers, bodyguards, husbands and uncles all seem happy to decide that their point of view is the only one, and to punish any woman who objects to it.

It's entirely possible that I'm making too much of this, and that I'm letting PC ideologies swamp my muddled mind, but I'm curious as to how the models themselves feel about the matter.

There are any number of strong, independent, intelligent women involved in the spanking scene, both here and in the US; Pandora Blake, Amelia Jane Rutherford, Leia-Ann Woods, Clare Fonda, Chelsea Pfeiffer and Audrey Knight all spring to mind. Whatever disciplinary games they may play in their own lives, I do not believe that any of them would truly accept a man's judgement as being superior to their own, purely because he is a man.

Despite this, I think pretty much all of the women mentioned have made videos in which this is the role they have portrayed. I apologise to those who haven't (if there are any) for maligning them.

You can argue that they all appear in videos for money; it's a job, and a role is a role. Spanking models are actresses, playing a part; this doesn't mean that they believe in the reality of what they are doing. I totally accept that, but still I wonder how they feel about being forced into a position they may have little sympathy with in real life.

There is of course a solution; make your own videos. Certainly a lot of the better known spanking models have gone down this route, whether through establishing their own site, like Pandora recently has, or writing and producing clips within an established site, as Amelia has done with Firm Hand Spanking.

I don't know the answer to this, and I've rambled on long enough. I'd welcome any comments/corrections.

All the best


The photos this time come from Punished Brats and Real Life Spankings; apologies to both David and Mike for using several shots of each of them. I'm not suggesting either gentleman adopts the paternalistic approach in real life - I just wanted some M/F shots and I had their videos to hand to capture screens from.


  1. Hi Tim,

    I'm very late for this post, but I think you raised a very interesting topic here! That's why I would like to throw in my two cents worth. I'm not sure whether you are talking about the same Dan I had a discussion with in 2010 on The Spank Statement blog, but I can definitely relate to what you wrote about paternalism. The discussion I was involved in came up when Luther wrote about his ten favourite spanking scenes. Among several M/F scenes, Luther mentioned two F/F scenes as well. Which led to the following comment by Dan (this is just an excerpt with the relevant part for this discussion): "I would also omit '5ive Girls' and 'Community' from any list I make. Why? Because they are F/F. To me, M/F is the only legitimate spanking format."

    I decided to write a reply to his comment, addressing several subjects which he had raised. Re legitimate spanking formats I wrote the following: " 'To me, M/F is the only legitimate spanking format.' I hope this comment just means: 'In my list there would only be M/F scenes because this is what turns ME on / I like.' I hope it doesn’t mean: 'I’m only into M/F scenes and therefore all other forms of spanking are wrong/bad/illegitimate.' Because to my mind prejudices and discrimination among kinksters are much worse than any vanilla who doesn’t understand the concept of erotic spanking and thinks that spankos are sick. In my relationship with my partner Ludwig I’m 95% bottom, but I also switch and the fantasies I like to watch on video are actually 95% M/M! Which doesn’t mean that I don’t watch clips with other constellations, too. And it definitely doesn’t mean that I consider other constellations (for example F/F, a constellation I’m not really interested in) as being somehow 'wrong'. It’s just not MY kink, but that is a preference and doesn’t allow me to judge other people’s kinks morally. The rule is very simple: If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. From my experience kinksters who judge forms of kink which are different from their own preferences as being 'wrong' usually have issues with their kink and/or prejudices against different forms of sexuality. For example people who complain about M/M clips are often simply suffering from homophobia. Quite frankly, it makes me sad to see that there are as many prejudices among kinksters as there are in our society as a whole. So I just hope you didn’t mean it that way…"

    The only answer I got was: "You say po-TAY-toh, I say po-TAH-toh." So I decided that it didn't make sense to discuss the topic any further. But like you I definitely have problems with watching videos that imply that only men or only women should be spankers (or spankees) because they know best (or are in need of spankings).

  2. Hi Kaelah

    Many thanks for the comment; I am in fact referring to the same Dan, and in fact it may have been that discussion that lingered in my memory. I wasn't sure of it's source (hence no specific reference).

    I entirely agree with you that it is not acceptable to judge anyone's kink as wrong simply because it is not your thing; we're all into spanking. It doesn't matter who we like to see on the top or the bottom.

    As you say, if it's not your thing, simply don't watch it. And tastes are liable to change anyway. Three years ago I wouldn't have watched an F/M clip; now I can get really turned on by a good one. Ten years ago I only looked for M/F clips; now look where I am! I actually tend to enjoy F/F more. I think this may be the subject of a follow up post sometime soon.

    All the best